Physical Shifting; possible or impossible?

[Flippie]

I don't know when exactly I took an interest in this, perhaps it was when the idea suddenly struck me when I was horribly bored. But whatever it was, I started to think of P-shifting. People claimed it was impossible but another part of me laughed and said, "Impossible? Weren't a lot of things claimed impossible? Weren't a lot of things thought to be false turned out to actually be a reality...? You can never be sure what is real and what is not. What is possible and what will never happen no matter how hard you try." And this made me think. Maybe P-shifting IS possible. I got interested in the subject, so I started asking a few of my friends about it.

On of my friends told me it was possible in a way, but it was one of those things you don't overthink about. I asked her what she meant and she said, you don't think about P-shifting, you just DO it, just as how you breathe, you don't usually think about it, same as certain other types of shifting, such as M-shifting... So perhaps P-shifting is possible and we just don't know it because we do it when we are unaware of it.. I've had quite a few incidents when I looked into my friend's eyes and they suddenly looked like a cat's eyes, or times when my other friend's tounge would look more like a lizard's, or when my teeth became sharper than usual.

Unlike others, I do find P-shifting possible, but just for certain parts of the body... it seems quite possible, considering I've seen it happen before, but that's just me. Believe me, I was very skeptical of the topic when it first showed it's ugly head into my research, but seeing it for myself, I believe it's possible...

What I hate about the topic is that once or twice you get a nutjob claiming they can turn their full body into an animal or a furry-like creature, and then when it's their time to prove it they claim it's a personal matter and they'd rather not show it off. If it's such a person matter, why draw attention to yourself like that? -.- Only because they want attention, though we all know that, do we not? x] It seriously annoys the shit out of me, though.

Well, wow. I sure typed out a lot of things... well I guess I have a lot of time on my hands, now don't I? X3

[brighteyed]

The topic has been talked about over and over throughout the community. recently on werelist eye changing was discussed. Most concluded it was dude to a number of factors. Some mentioned lighting, others mentioned capileries and you know, could just be people's imagination.

Personally I'm skeptical of it since to shapeshift would go against a number of natural laws. Of course I'd love to be able to just slip into something a little more 'suited' to me but thats the way things are.

Of course saying you've witnessed such things, you're going to get a number of demands proving what you've seen. So unless someone comes up with the goods, even slight changes I'm going to remain skeptical like a number of people.

[Flippie]

Aug 2, 2008 10:16:57 GMT -5 brighteyed said:

The topic has been talked about over and over throughout the community. recently on werelist eye changing was discussed. Most concluded it was dude to a number of factors. Some mentioned lighting, others mentioned capillaries and you know, could just be people's imagination.

Personally I'm skeptical of it since to shapeshift would go against a number of natural laws. Of course I'd love to be able to just slip into something a little more 'suited' to me but thats the way things are.

Of course saying you've witnessed such things, you're going to get a number of demands proving what you've seen. So unless someone comes up with the goods, even slight changes I'm going to remain skeptical like a number of people.

Yeah, I know what you mean. But I don't really have an overactive imagination... I think it could be that, but, meh, I don't hallucinate... hopefully. 83

But I would never draw attention to myself just to show people my teeth can change at random moments that I can't even control, so it'd be quite hard to show someone proof...XD

A lot of things have been deemed against the laws of nature, ya know? 83 Even if P-shifting is impossible it's still fun to find ways that it could be possible.

[Nousagi]

Nope. Not a believer. Maybe someday, but there is no way that we could fit all our makeup into different creatures. The process of p-shifting would require breaking bones and them having them quickly heal over, for example. It's just not going to happen.

Aug 2, 2008 13:06:07 GMT -5 Flippie said:

But I would never draw attention to myself just to show people my teeth can change at random moments that I can't even control, so it'd be quite hard to show someone proof...XD

Already been ruled out in the vampire community.

when someone with that doesn't get enough insulin their gums recede making their teeth appear longer

~By silhouettez on TFW: The Origin of Vampirism?

I've seen this posted all over, not limited to just TrueForm Within. Whether or not you have diabetes, I do not believe that your teeth are changing size/shape. Trick of the mind. If you believe that they are changing shape, you will perceive it. Simple psychology.

[Flippie]

Aug 4, 2008 11:06:52 GMT -5 Nousagi said:

Nope. Not a believer. Maybe someday, but there is no way that we could fit all our makeup into different creatures. The process of p-shifting would require breaking bones and them having them quickly heal over, for example. It's just not going to happen.

Aug 2, 2008 13:06:07 GMT -5 Flippie said:

But I would never draw attention to myself just to show people my teeth can change at random moments that I can't even control, so it'd be quite hard to show someone proof...XD

Already been ruled out in the vampire community.

when someone with that doesn't get enough insulin their gums recede making their teeth appear longer

~By silhouettez on TFW: The Origin of Vampirism?

I've seen this posted all over, not limited to just TrueForm Within. Whether or not you have diabetes, I do not believe that your teeth are changing size/shape. Trick of the mind. If you believe that they are changing shape, you will perceive it. Simple psychology.

Yar yar yar, you're right. 83 I understand ya. XD I was just thinking of it as just the changing of certain body parts, not like a full form change, of course, I'm all open to the fact of imagination, which is something that always crosses my mind.. But as they say, anything is possible. [Except for slamming a revolving door, that's not possible.]

[WinterWolf]

Alrightie, here comes my thoughts concerning the matter. And an apology beforehand, since I'm afraid that this may be a quite weird post. Important: I do NOT claim to be a P-shifter, nor do I claim to have seen someone becoma an entirely other animal than a human, or partly for that matter.
Anyway, here are my thoughts.

I am not a pure sceptic when it comes to P-shifting. Now, I am fully aware that this statement will probably cause big trouble, somehow, because the topic itself has a tendency to become so odd, and so much about what people want to believe, instead of what they really believe in.

I do not say that P-shifting, much or little, is impossible, nor am I saying that I have the proof that it is possible. This is important to say, because I don't want anyone thinking I'm someone who claims to be a P-shifter and won't provide proof.
I won't provide proof, because there is none to be found.

I will only explain what I feel about this matter, both what I would want to think, and what I do think.
I would say, that P-shifting wouldn't be possible. Actually, if it is possible, I believe that the brain would have a lot to do with it.

I read somewhere that some animals can lose an arm or leg and it will eventually grow out, full length. What if that process could be speeded up, and that the brain would say to the body "Hey, rebuild yourself!"? Now, wouldn't that mean that the brain could possibly change the appearance of a body?
And I know, I know, humans can't grow out a new arm where it was amputated, but might it not just be a gene that is shut off, making it impossible?
Genes can be activted or de-activated, so this is what I base my speculative theory on P-shifting on.

I have sometimes thought that when I looked into a mirror, my eyes had changed colour. I'm not saying it might not have been imagination, because my imagination is a wild one. I admit it. But I'm not really that crazy, am I?

I believe that until someone proves it impossible, with scientific facts, it might not be impossible. I would hate to say it is, because the body is amazing, and can do so many more things that we would probbly even think of. Not to mention the brain, who can trick the body to endure more, or adapt.

I hope that this will be a really constructive discussion, since I'm sick and tired of all the posers.

Again, apologies for the ramblings and thoughts. This is what I believe in, and it's not based on fiction or dreams. Just pure thinking and discussing with myself and my mind.

[Flippie]

Aug 16, 2008 6:59:09 GMT -5 WinterWolf said:

Alrightie, here comes my thoughts concerning the matter. And an apology beforehand, since I'm afraid that this may be a quite weird post. Important: I do NOT claim to be a P-shifter, nor do I claim to have seen someone becoma an entirely other animal than a human, or partly for that matter.
Anyway, here are my thoughts.

I am not a pure sceptic when it comes to P-shifting. Now, I am fully aware that this statement will probably cause big trouble, somehow, because the topic itself has a tendency to become so odd, and so much about what people want to believe, instead of what they really believe in.

I do not say that P-shifting, much or little, is impossible, nor am I saying that I have the proof that it is possible. This is important to say, because I don't want anyone thinking I'm someone who claims to be a P-shifter and won't provide proof.
I won't provide proof, because there is none to be found.

I will only explain what I feel about this matter, both what I would want to think, and what I do think.
I would say, that P-shifting wouldn't be possible. Actually, if it is possible, I believe that the brain would have a lot to do with it.

I read somewhere that some animals can lose an arm or leg and it will eventually grow out, full length. What if that process could be speeded up, and that the brain would say to the body "Hey, rebuild yourself!"? Now, wouldn't that mean that the brain could possibly change the appearance of a body?
And I know, I know, humans can't grow out a new arm where it was amputated, but might it not just be a gene that is shut off, making it impossible?
Genes can be activted or de-activated, so this is what I base my speculative theory on P-shifting on.

I have sometimes thought that when I looked into a mirror, my eyes had changed colour. I'm not saying it might not have been imagination, because my imagination is a wild one. I admit it. But I'm not really that crazy, am I?

I believe that until someone proves it impossible, with scientific facts, it might not be impossible. I would hate to say it is, because the body is amazing, and can do so many more things that we would probbly even think of. Not to mention the brain, who can trick the body to endure more, or adapt.

I hope that this will be a really constructive discussion, since I'm sick and tired of all the posers.

Again, apologies for the ramblings and thoughts. This is what I believe in, and it's not based on fiction or dreams. Just pure thinking and discussing with myself and my mind.

Winterwolf, I absolutely love you. You described a lot of my beliefs on P-shifting in one amazing post. xD!

I do believe that P-shifting <if possible> does have a lot to do with the mind.

I thought, "If humans don't use most of their brain... what would happen if they did?" Would P-shifting be possible? Would it not be? Who knew?

[WinterWolf]

Flippie, I just happen to think that since many of our genes are shut off, just as the one that makes a new arm grow out or such, I think that P-shifting might be possible, and I don't say it is either possible or impossible until someone comes with proof that it is <impossible>. I'm that positive type, who thinks that the glass is half full instead of half empty
And I must say, I agree with you on that it might happen to be about the mind very much

And I might have said this before, but as far as I know, if you say you can't do something, you probably won't be able to, since your mind will lure the body and itself to say it's impossible, and therefore not succeed. But whta if you wanted it enough, and told yourself you could do it, would it then be possible? Would it be that some therians could and others not? Or all of the therians? Or none?

[xdarkkitsunex]

my thoughts would be that maybe like what winter wolf said, but i'd like to add something on. i've seen weird things in my life, somethings weren't imagined. i not saying i've seen someone shift or anything of the sort. i've seen an average 120 pound woman lift a car (slightly were not talking about the Hulk) to save her kid. they even report stuff like that in the news. maybe it was something in her mind, i don't know. but nothing is impossible to me. scientists are now starting to say the human spirit exists literally. on the news they were talking about people who meditated, but had an extremely poor diet living longer than those that took care of themselves.

just sayin'

[WinterWolf]

xdarkkitsunex, that was interesting, and well, I think that many times, people can do so much more than they every imagined that they could.

[Equinuus-Felinity]

Okie Dokie, RANT TYME X3

P-shifting. I'm not a skeptic, but I'm not a total believer either. Like Nousagi said, changing your whole bodies make-up would mean breaking/rearanging bones and then healing very quickly.
Is that possible?
Perhaps.
There have been people who have been seriously wounded and healed perfectly (perhaps not quickly, like a shapeshifter would hope to, but perfectly).

And I agree with Winterwolf, Flippie, and DarkKitsune. It has EVERYTHING to do with the mind, because the mind is a marvelous thing.

Reflexes, Adrenaline production, Hormone production, your heartbeat, your breathing, the way you walk, talk, eat, grab a pencil and comb your hair; All controled by the mind.
We, as humans, only use a measly TEN PERCENT of the brain power that we are capable of. The people who stretch into the eleven and twelve percents are often considered geniouses. There are people who can work through math problems at fifty times the speed of a regular person. All because of one single extra percent of the brain being used.
Idiot Savants?
They lack human relation skills, and often some control over their bodies. They are considered retarted.
But having met the Rain Man myself, I can tell you, they are brilliant. There is no "idiot" in them. Their minds sort through problems faster than an automated machine at the post office.
I read somewhere once, that idiot savants use around 15 percent of their brain power (don't quote me on this though, I'm going off my memory, which is at best, really crappy).

There have also been SCIENTIFICALLY proven tests, where subjects were told to change their eye or hair color simply by THINKING it to be true.
Results were shown.
Green eyes became bluer in one week.
People with brown hair were starting to turn into red heads.

Our minds control our genes. They are in charge of all of the little connections that tell your skin to be light or dark, your hair to be the color of your fathers or your mothers, and so on so forth.
It keeps all those little things in line.
Why else would people who have gone through extreme trauma/stress have gray patches in their hair?

I myself have conducted tests to see what my mind is capable of.
I woke up one morning, and wanting to get out of a family outing, decided to pretend I was sick.
I spoke with a rasp in my voice, shivered a bit, stumbled when I walked, put on a full act.
By the end of the day, I had fully convinced my own mind that I was sick, and it was putting out all the stops to kill off whatever disease had taken over me.
I had a 100 degree fever (which one cannot fake without burying oneself under a pile of blankets and hot pads), my nose was running like a faucet, and I even threw up.
I convinced my own body that it was sick, and it believed me whole-heartedly.


Of course, you can put down any theory, and you can claim falsehoods in any tale.
But for the people who have witnessed these things first hand?
You'll never proove it false.


That's my rant.

The end

[Shadowsmoke]

My eyes can change color, It's a gene that runs in the family.
Oddly enough, It adapted some parts that weren't from my fathers side of the family, into itself.
The normal thing is to have my eyes turn blue, gray, and in between, But my eyes also turn green and yellow. Not completely mind you, just a fairly large yellow band around the pupil and normally a dark green one surrounding that.
Having said that, It's now theorized that peoples eyes can change color. (well what can I say? I can't give you pictures after all.)
And how do we know things like therianthropy aren't actually in our genes? How are we to know that it isn't like dwarfism? Where two completely normal people can pair up and get a dwarf.
How are we to know that when our parents met up, one or the other had counteracted the gene that counteracts having the animal part of us become real? and how are we to know that the same gene didn't un-restrict the part of us that can P-shift?

On the same note, where would the massive amounts of energy needed to preform this process come from? Especially if we were passed out from the pain.
And how would it be able to happen so fast anyway? The bones would either have to break and reform in several places, or they would have to turn to cartilage, and reform into the right shapes. This could take months, possibly even a year, much less a half hour.
Also I can see this working best for canines, they have the more human bone structure, but what about horses? You have the problem of hooves, and you have completely different hind legs.
And what about reptiles? Then you have an added problem of scales.
Minor shifts may be possible though.
It's possible to have your eyes change color, or your gums to temporarily recede, or even push the tooth out a bit (only very slightly though) and draw it back, or have your ears grow a bit more pointed, or your nails to turn darker, or maybe even have your senses become sharper. (though this may be because you're paying more attention to them, or your brain simply decides it's necessary.)

My point is, How can we know? And how can we not?
Sorry, I've been doing research for a while and finally had the chance to put it out there. ^-^

[cassiline]

hey, im not a huge authority on how people shift rather their psychology (survivialism basically).

i'll admit that shifiting is hugely limited, your bones play a huge part but if you have the correct levels of muscle and fat surronding your skin then you can tighten them, its a genetically viable theory and some people can do it (if you want a more edible version it was seen on X files so that might give you a more simple version to start with but dont get too attached).

the eye changing thing is a bit weird but i have a friend who can do it and does just to creep me out. all of the doctors i know (quite a few) say that while it is possible they cant think they cant get their head round it. the brain needs to have more control than humans have now to pull it off and most therians hate the MRI because they can hear the high pitch frequency it emits and drives them mad. i am not a walker but i can hear it too, lycan, and its maddening.

as for the whole reptilian image, yes most walkers ive met are more reptilian and we believe from the tests we have done say they completely revamp their skin, muscle and nervous system once a week causing huge dietary changes.

i did have a load of evidence for this all but unfortunately the labs the docs were using got destroyed along with all the files, it was lazy not to make a backup. i know skeptics say this is typically since it means i have no proof either way but honestly i worked for ages helping with interviews and getting samples so no it isnt "typically" if bloody annoying and i need ice cream to feel better:(

hope thats helped, but those are only my findings, and yes some of the media was right we think it is caused by a virus that changes the genome but any new zygotes made after infection would carry the new genetic code and therefore make therianthropes by birth.

[Ricket]

First thing I would like to point out is that eye color and hair color are controlled by melanin, which the regulation of such can to a certain extent be consciously controlled, but it's no more unnatural than concentrating on slowing your pulse after running around the track.

Second thing is that the idea that humans only use 10% of their brain is a misconception developed early on when doctors could only detect activity in 10% of the brain. Modern equipment allows us to create a much clearer picture of brain activity and all of it is in use controlling your nervous system and allowing for conscious thought, nonconscious thought (more colloquially none as subconscious), and memories.

Okay, now for the actualy purpose of this post. I am a believer in p-shifting, and I have been doing a good deal of research into this particual subject. On a different forum, I have been reviewing current scientific knowledge and following the method of inductive reasoning to put together an incomplete prediction of how a p-shift would work. The following summary was written after our forum had a server crash of some sorts, corrupting the entire board. I would put the summary in quotes, but I find it quite annoying to read it when it is like that, so I'll simply use a dashed line seperator.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last topic I remember us being on was the reshaping of bones. I remember the discourse being over how there was a hormone that could cause the bones to release their calcium into the blood stream, which would make them soft and maleable. From there, they would be reshaped by a special muscle that is used in forming growing bones. Then the hormone would activate again to cause the bones to absorb the calcium in the blood stream and regain their hardness.

We used neurotransmitters, specifically endorphins, to block the pain.

Energy, perhaps the largest hurdle yet to cross. First of all, the body does not store energy at all. It stores fat, which can be turned into energy, but it does not store energy. ATP cannot be stored, it is created and then immediately used. Anyways, we modeled the theoretical bacteria to be a rickettsia bacteria, which is supposedly the evolutionary predocessor to the virus and the mitochondrion as we know today. Adrenaline would be released, which would release oxygen to the cells, which both the cell's mitochondria and the bacteria would process into the required energy.

We ruled out cold fusion and avoided any spiritual/mystical solutions to any of these problems.

I predict that the virus/bacteria that caused the shapeshifting would have the necessary pieces of DNA for shifting and for that of a wolf. The shifting DNA would be used to create a blue print of sorts for the brain so that it would follow along when the somantic nerve system was activated for the shift. The wolf DNA would be used when turning into a wolf, and the human DNA would be used when turning back into human.

Co-evolution was lightly touched upon to explain the origin of the bacteria/virus, starting from mild shifts to mimic the physical aspects of different species and over time becoming more sophisticated. It was suggested that the bacteria/virus developed as an amplification to the flight or fight response, thus allowing for greater survivability of the host and better chances of reproduction.

There was no discussion of a possible connection between allergic reaction to silver and any biological process that would aid with the shift, and most likely is simply a product of storytelling.

Argument over how the shifter could reproduce all of their cells without dieing of old age in the process led to the use of telomeres to counteract this effect. The necessity of every cell needing to replicate though was called into question when the process by which viruses reproduce was more closely inspected (since viruses, with the exception of RNA viruses, join their DNA to the host cell, the proteins necessary could simply be an expression of a section of the new DNA).

[Sherlawk Dragon]

Um... hello? Do you mind posting an introduction before you just start babbling on?